Live in One State and Want to Sell Insurance in Another? What You Need to Know about Non-Resident Insurance Licenses
If you’re an insurance agent or customer service rep in the insurance industry, you probably know you need to be licensed to sell or even discuss insurance in the state where you live. But, what if you live in one state and work in another? This is a common scenario for people who live near a state border. In this case, you’ll need both a “resident” insurance license and a “non-resident insurance license.”
If you plan to work in another state, follow these steps to ensure you have covered all your bases.
- Get licensed in your resident state (if you haven’t already). You may need to take an approved insurance pre-license course (if required by your state) and pass a state exam in order to get licensed, after which you can formally apply for your resident license, get fingerprinted (if required by your state), and pay any fees. Contact your state’s Department of Insurance to find out how to start this process. Note that insurance licensing exams are often administered by a third-party company—for example, in Texas the testing company is Pearson VUE.Take an approved insurance pre-licensing course to help prepare you for the state licensing exam; whether it’s required in your state or not, a comprehensive insurance pre-licensing course, like the courses offered by America’s Professor, can dramatically improve your chances of passing the insurance licensing exam the first time.
- Obtain a non-resident license in the state where you work or plan on working, as well as any additional states where you plan to sell or discuss insurance. Visit the Department of Insurance website for the state(s) where you want to obtain a non-resident license to find out about the requirements and fees. NIPR.com is also a great resource to find this information. We recommend you visit this resource at least once as they have compiled the most information in one place (that we know of) and do a good job of keeping it up-to-date.
What About State Licensing Exams?
If you live in one state and work in another, you may or may not be required to pass a licensing exam in the state where you work, in addition to the state where you live. Contact the insurance licensing department in the state where you plan to work to find out whether you can obtain a non-resident insurance license without having to pass the state exam.
In either case, you will need to apply for a non-resident insurance license in the state where you work after obtaining your resident license from the state you are a resident of.
It can get even more complicated if you sell insurance in multiple states. For example, suppose you’re a salesperson for a large insurance agency that sells insurance nationwide. If your company has you selling auto insurance and homeowner’s insurance policies in 26 states, you’ll be required to maintain active non-resident property and casualty insurance licenses in all 26 of those states, as well as the state where you work, plus a resident insurance license in the state where you live. That’s a lot of licenses to maintain!
The good news: Large agencies usually have a dedicated person or department that handles licensing for sales agents, customer service reps, and others who are required to be licensed.
More good news: Most states have “reciprocal agreements,” meaning that they will issue a non-resident producer license with few or no additional requirements (e.g. pre-licensing courses, fingerprinting, examinations, etc.) beyond the license application fee, as long as you have an equivalent license in your resident state.
Some states have more stringent requirements when it comes to issuing non-resident insurance licenses, however. Florida, for example, requires fingerprints and a background check before they will issue one. California also requires fingerprints for the residents of around 25 states in order to issue a non-resident license.
What About Pre-Licensing Courses?
Adding another layer of complexity are state requirements regarding pre-licensing courses. Some states require you to complete an approved insurance pre-licensing course prior to taking the state licensing exam or obtaining a non-resident insurance license, while others simply encourage it.
Once you’re properly licensed in both the state where you reside and the state where you work, you can begin selling policies.
America’s Professor Is Here to Help
Navigating the many rules and regulations surrounding the insurance industry can feel overwhelming. That’s why America’s Professor has compiled helpful resources for individuals who are trying to get licensed.
See our State Specific Resources page for more helpful information, and don’t hesitate to contact our knowledgeable customer service reps with any questions at 1-800-870-3130.
Got a Question?
Please read the replies below as it’s possible we’ve already answered it for you. 😉
I have a resident license in GA. I would like to get a NRL for two additional states, do I contact the DOI in my state or the states that I have interests in?
Hi Kee Kee, I would recommend you start with a call to the other state’s DOIs but I think they will end up having you process it through NIPR.com. Good luck!
I have a non-resident insurance license to sell insurance in another State. Do I also need to a have Non-Resident Agency License?
Hello Harold, No, you just need your non-resident license. Good luck!
I’m licensed in 20 states, but I’m thinking of moving abroad. Could I still keep my job and work from abroad if I change residency or only if I maintain a residence in the US as well?
Hello JP, I believe you would need to maintain your residency in the US. You might call your department of insurance to verify but I am pretty sure you have to be A US resident.
JP, what did they say? Because i want to ask my manager but I am scared he will say no haha
Hey, JP, do you have to renew each one of those non-resident licenses every two years?
Also, does anyone know if the CE requirement is just for your home state or are there additional ones for other states?
Hi Eddie, I’m not sure on the renewal as I think some states are different but the CE should just be for your home state. Good luck!
Good evening, I live in GA and I am back and forth between here and Louisiana. I would like to know if it is possible to sell insurance in both GA and LA.
Hello Courtney, Yes you can. As mentioned above you would need to get a resident license in Georgia and then apply for a non-resident license in Louisiana. Please let us know if you have any other questions. Thanks! 🙂
I have a California Life license and I want to sale insurance in Florida what I need to do?
Hello Guilherme, You will need to get a non-resident license in Florida. You can see the requirements and process at nipr.com. Good luck!
Hi,
If I primarily live in Colorado, but travel around the US for long periods of time and have a work from job selling property and casualty. Would I need a non resident license for each state I stay in even though I would still be selling Colorado insurance?
Hi Lexi, If you have a Colorado resident license you can sell to Colorado residents. If you plan on selling insurance to people who live outside of Colorado you need to have a non-resident license in those states. Good luck!
Thank you for your help! So I just want to make sure. If I primarily live in Colorado and have my Colorado resident license yet I am in Wyoming at the moment I can still sell to Colorado residents?
Yep!
Hi! I want to piggy-back on this question. If I am licensed in Colorado and move permanently to Oregon, but will be working remotely for a Colorado agent ONLY selling insurance to Colorado residents, do I need an Oregon license? Do I need to do anything additional to continue selling Colorado insurance?
Hi Jodi, You need move your resident license to Oregon and apply for a non-resident in Colorado. Good luck!
Hello, I would also love to piggy back off this aha I am licensed in CA. My fiance is military and we are changing states due to his job. Would I need to move my resident license to our new state, and apply for a non resident license in CA? We will only be in the new state for a couple years. TIA
Hi Sarah, Yes, you will need to move your resident license to your new state and get a non-resident for CA. Check with the DOI of the state you are moving to for the process. Good luck!
Question that I cannot find the answer to anywhere! I recently failed my florida life and health exam three times! However I always just moved to New York State and I want to take it again. Since it’s a different state am I eligible to take it again?!
Hi Alex, Yes, different state so different rules. You are starting over again from the beginning which also means you need to take another approved pre-licensing course unfortunately. Good luck!
If I have a insurance producer license in Alabama but, want to get a non-resident license for NC since we have an office there also, do I have to take an exam for NC?
Hi Rhonda, Not usually. Check with nipr.com but I think you only need to apply for a non-resident license. Good luck!
Hello. Do you know what states are All line of authority states? I know Texas is one. Meaning if I have a resident license in NC and want to sell in Maryland. If I have my health and medicare there can I just add life without the fee?
Hello, I’m not sure what All line of authority states are but it sounds like you are trying to get a non-resident license in Maryland. Most states are going to charge you a fee. Check out nipr.com to see what the rules and fees are for licenses in each state you would like to sell insurance in. Good luck!
Question : I live in NW Indiana and want to sell life & health insurance in Illinois only. Do I need residency license first or could I go test for non-residency license and be done. ?
Hello Dorota, You will need to get your resident Indiana license first then apply for a non-resident Illinois license. Please see nipr.com for more information. Good luck!
Hi, 3 years ago I got my resident license in California, but now I live in Oregon. If I plan to work only in California, can I keep my CA resident license over there (and sell insurance in California) while I’m obtaining my OR license. Basically the question is if I’m a resident in the state A, but have a resident license in the state B, can I use my resident license in the state B?
Hi Alex, If your license is still current you might be able to get a release on it and transfer it to Oregon. You would then have to get your non-resident in California I believe. You can check out nipr.com to see the general process. Personally, I’d call up the CA Department of Insurance and ask the licensing division your questions. They might have a shortcut for you. Good luck!
Hello, I’m ca insurance licensed and have a client that goes back and forth between ca and Colorado. He’s buying a Ltd policy from me. Can I just have him sign a ca app when he’s in ca and avoid getting non-resident license for Colorado?
Hello Jeff, That is a bit beyond our scope of knowledge. I would have to deffer to department of insurance. My guess is that it would depend on what state his primary residence is in. Good luck!
I have Illinois license. If I have a client that moves, do I need to get a NRL in that state? Or do I have to if 5 or more clients live in that state (not IL)?
Hello Diana, I think you would want to contact the new state’s DOI to see if you needed the NRL. You can also try looking the state up on nipr.com and see if they have your answer too. Good luck!
I live in Tennessee and have my state license there. i want to be able to be doing phone sales in many states. Do I need to be non-resident licensed in all of those states? Or since it is done over the phone from my state, just my Tennessee license?
Hello Chester, You will need a non-resident in each state you are selling in. It makes no difference whether you are talking to them on the phone or knocking on their doorstep. You can check out NIPR.com to see what steps are required for each state. Good luck!
Do you get fined per state for letting go of your license and not completing CE courses?
Hello Kat, I don’t believe so if you are letting your license go. There might be a fee if you are late on your renewal and you are keeping your license. Good luck!
Do you know the licensing needs if you write a policy for a location in one state and they want to add locations in other states? Do you need to be liceensed in all the states that have locations?
Hello Dave, I would think that if the new location is added to an existing policy that wouldn’t require a non-resident license. But, if it’s a new policy I believe you would need to apply for a non-resident license in that state to write it. As always with compliance issues, we recommend your first and last call to be to the state’s department of insurance. 😉 Good luck!
I have a casualty and property insurance producer license in Nj. I’m moving to Florida, do I qualify for a non-resident insurance license in Nj?
Hello Patty, You should look at NIPR.com to see what the particulars are. The last time I looked you had to have your NJ license for at least 1 year before you could transfer your resident license to Florida (and not have to complete their 200-hour PC pre-license requirement). If you’ve had your NJ resident license for less than a year you will probably have to start over with the Florida pre-licensing requirement. Applying for your non-resident NJ license shouldn’t be a problem after you have your Florida license. Good luck!
I’m licensed in multiple states but the question pertains to FL! I understand that I have to register in each county that I plan on working in so how do I go about that
Hi Jay, I’m not aware of any requirement to register in each county. That sounds like a good question for the Florida Department of Insurance. Good luck!
as a licensed agent in California if I have a client in California that is doing business in another state, do I need to have a non-resident license if I write him a policy in another state? Or if I add an out of state location to his current policy?
Hi Janet, If you were insuring someone’s real property, like a building, in a different state you would need a non-resident license in that state. You will want to give that state’s department of insurance a call to see if you fall into a grey area situation. Good luck!
I moved to ID from AZ and now have a resident licence in ID and a non-resident license in AZ. I want to work for a different company in ID than I do in AZ. So can my non-resident license in AZ be with Company A and my resident license in ID be with Company B?
Hi Kevin, As long as the new company in AZ is authorized to do business there you will be fine if they appoint you. You may want to make sure your employment with company A doesn’t have you in a very restrictive employment contract which could result in a conflict of interest. Also, it’s always a good idea to check with each state’s department of insurance to make sure there aren’t any other issues that need to be addressed. Good luck!
If I live in NY but work for a FL based company do I have to get a NY insurance license if I am not selling insurance in that state? I know I will have to surrendered my FL license and get a non-resident licensed but would I need a NY license also?
Hi Gina, You always have to have a resident license in the state you live in and then non-resident licenses in any states you plan to sell in. If you are moving from FL to NY I would call their licensing department and see if they will allow you to transfer your license. Often you can get a clearance letter from your old state (FL) and then be given a time frame to apply for a license in your new state (NY) without having to take the licensing exam again. It’s definitely worth a call. Good luck!
Is there such a thing as a type of P&C License that allows agents to sell Nationwide? How do online brokerages do it? The process of time and money to become licensed in every state individually is a barrier.
I appreciate your time and help in responding
Hi Steve, There isn’t a national insurance license. You are correct, it is a barrier to entry that takes time and resources to complete. Most of your larger companies have a division dedicated to licensing and making sure their producers stay current on CE and other requirements. Luckily, applying for non resident licenses usually isn’t too difficult. If you look at NIPR.com you can see what the process looks like for each state.
I have a resident corporate agency in one state and I’m the only licensed producer. To get non-resident licensing through NIPR for example in other states I assume I only need to get those licenses for the agency and not also for me as the agent. So, does each state view non-resident agency or agent as the same thing? So, I won’t need to pay for both non-res agency and agent I’m assuming.
Hi Rick, I think this would be a state-by-state compliance issue that you would have to call each state’s licensing department. I’d hate to tell you something and have it not be true for every state. Thanks and good luck!
Hello, I have a CA resident license and I am a broker, i would like to obtain non-resident licenses in other states where broker fees are allowed. Do you know which states would those be?
Hi Joy, Please see NIPR.com for non-resident licenses. They should have the tools available there for your research. Good luck!
I work with California policies and have my California license , however I have moved to Washington. I will keep working with the California agents only and not be selling any Washington policies.. can I keep just my California license or do I have to get my Washington license.. I will not be selling any Washington policies only California
Hi Michelle,
As far as we know you would need to transfer your resident license to Washington (WDI: 360-725-7144) then apply for a non-resident in California (CDI: 800-967-9331). You should call the licensing department in both of those states to verify or see if they have a better option for you. They may have an easier option for you. Good luck!
Hi, I sell short term travel medical plans and my license is in California. Can I sell these plans in other states?
Hello Dilip, As long as you have the equivalent non-resident license in the other states you intend to sell in and your company’s policies work in those states. Good luck!
I work for a Wisconsin Insurance Agency with a Wisconsin Resident license and want to begin selling policies in Missouri. Can I work for a different Missouri Insurance Agency, or do I need to work for the same Wisconsin Insurance Agency.
Hello Denny, As long as your existing employment contract doesn’t have a restriction in it regarding other states you can sell for whatever agency. Just make sure you have you non-resident license in Missouri first. Good luck!
Do I have to register my company in the state of Texas in order to sell insurance there as an MGA? I’ve Googled and see that there is something about registering to be a foreign LLC, but don’t know if we have to do that if we get our MGA license to sell insurance in the state.
Hello Toni, You need to be “properly” licensed and the insurer you are selling or supervising for as an MGA must have a certificate of authority. You should confirm everything dealing with “licenses” through the TX DOI’s licensing division (512-676-6500). Good luck!
I have agents in my downline in several states. When they turn in business they have license or non-resident license for whatever state they wrote in.
As their upline, do I also have to have a non-resident license in those states to receive a commission?
Hello Sharon, I know that you need to be licensed the same as them but I’m not sure that there is an answer that fits all states. I’d recommend calling the DOI in each state and asking them as I think the answers might be different for each state. Sorry I couldn’t be more help. Good luck!
Hello,
I am licensed in one state and provide insurance through a website. I sell CGL through my website to clients looking for real-time quotes. As I move to other states, do I need to add each NRL for each state request that comes through my website?
Hello Audrey, You absolutely need a non-resident license in each state you are providing quotes for. Check with NIPR.com to see what the steps are for each state. Good luck!
I’m a Michigan resident however I go to school in Tennessee and want to obtain my life and health insurance in Tennessee. I understand that I have to file for a license through NIPR, however I want to know how will I take the test in my resident state if I’m temporarily living in Tennessee.
Hello Kourtney, Often the testing company will have sites in other states that can load your resident state’s license. Give them a call and they will tell you which sites are available. Good luck!
I have a Missouri life and health license what states will allow me to come to their state and sell non-health. Do I need a nonresident license for each of those states or just one
Hello Dr. Sherman Elbert Horton, You will need a non-resident license in every state you want to sell insurance in outside of your resident state. Please check out NIPR.com to see what the specific licensing requirements are for each state. Good luck!
Just got my Idaho resident Life&Health license & used your prelicencing course. Live right next to the Washington border so will like to get a Washington non-resident Life & Health license. I believe Washington requires 20hrs of training for each line. Can’t find too much info on the process to get the non-resident licenses. Can my hours I did in the Idaho courses count towards the Washington non-resident license? Do I have to get finger printed again for Washington?
Hi Bill, You won’t have to take another course just apply for a non-resident Washington license at NIPR.com. You’ve already done the hard part, passing the exam! Good luck and please give us a call if you have any questions.
I live in Texas and am looking into getting my license in Texas for p&c, can I also obtain h,l,& a insurance? Also can I also get my NM license in those fields
Hello Aimee, Here is a link to our Texas insurance courses. After you have successfully passed your Texas insurance exams and obtained your resident license, you can apply for non-resident licenses in New Mexico. Most of our student complete Property and Casualty first, get licensed, then take the Life, Accident and Health course and get licensed. Good luck! Please let us know if you have any other questions.
Which states don’t allow Texas insurance producers to issue policies in their states? (i.e. states that don’t have a non-resident reciprocal producer agreement with Texas). Thank you!
Hello Frank, Please see NIPR.com to see which states. You can usually guarantee CA & NY won’t allow a non-resident without a pre-licensing requirement. Good luck!
Can I move to Belize and work virtually selling life insurance?
Hello Cristina, That would be a great question for your resident state’s Department of Insurance. I think if you were still a primary resident of your state and just living in Belize part time in might not be a problem but you would have to ask your state to be sure. Good luck!
I have my resident 2-15 in FL along with nonresident in 25 states. Can I sell while living outside of the US ?
Hello Marquis, That would be a great question for Florida’s Department of Insurance. I think if you were still a primary resident of your state and just living outside the USA part time in might not be a problem but you would have to ask your state to be sure. Good luck!
My wife lives in Florida and wants to work in Texas. Her sister got her involved with this insurance company and told her she needed to be licensed. She was sent a training course and exam website. So she passed her exam on the very first try but we are now finding out that because she lives in Florida she cannot get her Texas license. We are being told she has to have a Florida license first and then a Texas license. Is this true? She has passed her texas exam but is a resident of Florida. How do we… Read more »
Hi Joe, That is true. She would have to pass the resident exam in the state she’s a primary resident of. Unfortunately that also means completing Florida’s pre-licensing course requirement/hours (!!!). After passing the Florida exam she would then be able to apply for a non-resident license at NIPR.com for Texas. I wish I had better news for you. Good luck!
I am confused. I have been an insurance producer for 30 years. My office is domiciled in New York State. I have always had my license here because my office is here and I comply with all the laws and regs of NYS. But 7 years ago I moved to CT. I still have my NY License in NY because my office is here. All of my other licenses are non-resident.
Is this Correct? Does the term Resident license refer to my where my resident office is? Somewhere along the line here i have suddenly gotten confused
Hi Scot, New York State is a state that doesn’t have a reciprocal agreement with many other states meaning they kind of play by their own rules. If I was you I would call the NYS Department of Insurance (212-480-6400 or 518-474-6600) and ask them your question. That’s the only way you’ll get the answer you need to sleep well at night. In most other states you would get a clearance letter and apply for your license in your new state, then apply for a non-resident in your old state. But it’s always good to call you local DOI. Good… Read more »
I own a retail insurance agency which is set up as a single member LLC, of which I own 100%. There are no employees or producers, besides myself. My agency is domiciled in Missouri and my agency has its Business Entity License in MO and I personally have my Individual Producer License in MO. My question(s) is – do I need to obtain both a non-resident business entity & individual producer license in each state for which my insureds will be domiciled? I see in one of the threads below, someone asked a similar question, and your response seems to… Read more »
Hi Blake, Unfortunately, your questions get into the weeds pretty quickly… they aren’t typical for what most of our students are inquiring about (usually individuals looking to get a license in another state). I don’t think there’s a single source (website) for your Business Entity questions. Your best to look up each state’s Department of Insurance website and inquire about their specific licensing rules. I can see why everyone would send you to NIPR as it’s one of the best resources out there for individuals but I can see where it wouldn’t answer your inquiries. Also, I’d be careful calling… Read more »
Can I sell an insurance/fixed annuity to a NC resident in CA if he signs paperwork in CA where I am licensed
Hello Rene, To the best of my knowledge I don’t think you can do that as it circumvents all of the non-resident license rules. You’re best bet is to check with the California Department of Insurance (1-800-967-9331) and see what they say. Good luck!
I’m in Hawaii and wanted to know if there is a Chart that shows the costs of obtaining a non-resident License in other states and also the cost of renewals. The NIPR site you have to click on each state to see the fees. Also, is there a way to get a discount on these fees for multiple states? Is there a discount if I’m with a company that has offices nationwide, thought I read somewhere that there was some sort of discount if there are other agents from my same company operating in those states I wanted to also… Read more »
Hi Johhny, I’m not aware of a chart that has it all in one place. I believe you are going to have to inquire with each state. Also, I’m not aware of any discounts at the funds usually go to the individual state and licensing agency. Please let us know if you find anything useful. Good luck!
I have a hawaii life insurance license if someone is visiting from california can i sell them a policy
Hello Arthur, this is a question best answered by the Department of Insurance in Hawaii. Most of the time I don’t think they are going to allow you to sell a policy to a Californian without a CA nonresident license. Good luck!
I just moved to WA. Going to be with working with a company here. I don’t want to release my TX license, and the re-apple for a non-res, and not sure how long I will be in WA. Should I just apply for a non-res in WA and keep it moving or go through the full process of switching my resident license? Or wait to see how the move goes before I switch?
Hi Marcus, It sounds like it depends on the length of time you are spending in Washington. If your primary residence is going to be in Texas then it probably just makes sense to get a nonresident license in Washington until you decide to move full time. You could also call your local DOI and ask them the time frame it takes to complete the resident license transfer. It might not take too long to get a clearance letter from Texas and transfer to Washington. I’m not sure on the fees though. Good luck!
I will be living in Alabama but plan on working remotely for a Texas company. If I don’t plan on writing in Alabama do I still need to get an Alabama license?
Hi Victoria, Yes, you need a resident license in the state you live in and a non-resident license for every other state you plan to do business in. Good luck!
I have a NY P&C license,but the agency I work for also sells & services PA and FL policies. Do I need to have the PA and FL licenses to sell or discuss coverage?
Hi Chris, If you plan to do anything regarding those PA and FL policies then you should have a non-resident license for those states. Good luck!
I will be moving to the state of WI but currently live in MI. Should I be obtaining a RL if I plan to be moving there within a month of my exam?
Hi Gigi, If you have your residence there then I probably would make sure to take the Wisconsin exam and apply for their residence license when you move. It would probably save you some time and extra fees unless you plan to transact insurance business before you move (in that case you need your MI RL license). Also be sure you are taking an approved Wisconsin course that will get you a certificate of completion if you take the WI RL exam. Good luck!
If I have a CA life license and want to discuss coverage, not bind it. Is the CA license enough (someone else would be binding it if they agree to accept the coverage):
Hi Michael, If you’re licensed you can definitely discuss coverage of any life products. If you wanted to discuss other types of products (e.g., Health) you would need other licenses. Good luck!
I am currently licensed in WI and just started a job where they adjust insurance claims for all states. I’ve been told that since WI isn’t a reciprocal to any other states, that I would need to take the NC test as it is a reciprocal state where I could then get licenses from most other states with NC being the base license. This seems strange to me as I’ve worked for insurance companies before and had non-resident licenses for other states while working here in WI writing insurance. Can anyone help with this question??
Hi Stacey, Your Insurance Department should be able to answer those questions for you, alternatively the companies who adjust in multiple states usually have a handle on non-resident Adjuster licenses (similar to how it works in insurance). Most of the time we get questions from student’s who’s states don’t have an Adjuster license so they get a resident/home state Adjuster license in Texas (since Texas allows you to do that, as do a few others) then they apply for a non-resident type of Adjuster license for the other states. I know that Hawaii is also one of those states that… Read more »
How often do you have to pay for a non resident license? Is it a one time fee deal?
Hi Monica, It can vary from state-to-state. Some are annual but most are renewed every 2 years. The key is to make sure you keep your resident license active! 😉
I am moving from Ohio to NC 7/18; how long do I have to change my Ohio resident license to Ohio non resident license because I will continue to sell in Ohio?
Then will NC give me a residente license without tests?
Hello Peter, Most states will give you a clearance letter and then ~90 days to move your resident license to the new state (followed up with switching to a non-resident in your old state). This usually means no additional testing for you (YAY!). I recommend calling both DOIs ASAP and talking to their Licensing Department (NC: 919-807-6800, OH: 614-644-2665) to make sure the process goes smoothly. Good luck!
CAN I SELL INSURENCE ON LINE WHEN LIVING IN ANOTHER COUNTRY
Hello Shell, You can sell insurance in the states/companies you are authorized to sell in. There are often “Alien” insurers domiciled in foreign countries selling insurance in other countries, you just need to be sure they are granted the proper certificate of authority to sell in those countries.